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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 17, 2002 12:48am
Forum: etree Subject: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

I am not very familiar with furthur, but it seems like a good application to help share the approved files. would it make sense to run furthur on the etreeXX.archive.org hosts on the files that live there?

If the archive could be the source of last resort, that could bring some stability to the network without needlessly using the archive's bandwidth.

if this is a good thing to do, would someone be interested in doing the installation and maintainance?

-brewster

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Poster: tucker Date: Nov 17, 2002 7:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

this seems like a good idea but the only problem is that furthur is another program that many people would have to learn to use. Currently, bandwidth isn't too much of a problem, so there's no need. I think that the site may have the option of using bit torrent to download shows in the future (correct me if I'm wrong). This would share bandwidth much like furthur but the program is almost transperent..it is a lot easier to use. Hopefully the program will imporove...bt is a great idea but I have a few qualms with the program.

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Poster: vansabar Date: Nov 17, 2002 9:19am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

unfortunetly, furthernet is incredibly slow, so integrating it with this project, may not help in the downloading of shows imo. Download the shows from further and then upload them here. makes life a lot easier
PHiL

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 17, 2002 2:11pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

given the good work of the developers, we have done limited tests of bittorrent and onionnetworks. both seem to work pretty well. I hope we expand the uses of these systems.

it just seemed that furthur might be another option (not in replacement of the http and ftp access currently offered).

-brewster

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Poster: Erich Date: Nov 17, 2002 3:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: furthur

not a good idea. theoreticaly all that needs to be done is to just run an instance of further orr each server and include the contents as shared, but logicaly speaking here, if you can download off further you can get an ftp program and use that too. Not to mention, due to furthurs unbelivably stupid way of downloading each show in its entirety while giving you no choice as to what songs and in what order you download them, you dont have a stable resuming option compared to the archive. just a bad idea, stick to the http/ftp downloading.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffJonathan Aizen Date: Nov 17, 2002 11:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

My only objection is that Furthernet is heavy-weight Java code. The program doesn't run very well on my PIII 600 with 256MB RAM - it takes a long time to load and is inefficient. It also doesn't support the option of downloading single tracks.

BitTorrent seems like a better, light-weight, alternative.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: Nov 19, 2002 2:23pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

I'd recommend Edonkey if you were considering BitTorrent. Edonkey has the same basic functionality of "swarmed" downloads but also the substantial advantage of a huge installed user base. Plus you'd get the added benefit of people doing searches stumbling across the material which you would not get with BitTorrent.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffbrewster Date: Nov 19, 2002 8:17pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Re: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

edonkey sounds like something worth trying. since we are mostly a volunteer organization, if you know anyone that would be interested in installing and testing any of these systems, that would be great. we can provide access to the server systems.

thanks for the help!

-brewster

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: Nov 21, 2002 3:32am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

I'd be interested in working on this, I do unix sysadmin and some web programming. I sent you a private mail on how to get in touch with me.

The other suggestion I'd make is to have your publishing software make entries in the Bitzi catalog. Its an interesting bridge between various p2p networks and web space.

And of course there's Lessig's Creative Commons when its done.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 21, 2002 3:51am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: other distrib methods and archive

A quick look at bitzi.com makes me think it would be unsuitable to have any etree archive crosslinks there. It wouldn't seem to be in line with the "noncommercial only" requirements of etree.org and most all artists listed here.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or Staffakb Date: Nov 21, 2002 4:24am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: other distrib methods and archive

There are many commercial catalogs that list information about noncommercial works, Internet search engines for instance. So, I don't think you can restrict listings of etree works in a catalog like bitzi.

There is the question of whether etree or archive.org would want to actively list works in bitzi. One reason for doing so is you would get the most accurate information into the catalog in a timely fashion, which would be an asset to users that came across the works on a p2p network and wanted to identify it.

That's one thing I like about open source licenses, they allow commercial or noncommercial models for getting the information seen as widely as possible. Sometimes one model works better than the other, sometimes both work together better than either one could by itself.

All this said, I would prefer to see something like btizi that was not commercial.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffDiana Hamilton Date: Nov 21, 2002 9:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Re: other distrib methods and archive

FWIW, most bands traded through etree.org aren't really "open source"- maybe it's more of a "restricted license" (hehe, I'm not a computer person, to know the jargon). Typical example from policy of Grateful Dead, Radiators (who are archived here) and others: "No commercial gain may be sought by websites offering digital files of our music, whether through advertising, exploiting databases compiled from their traffic, or any other means."

This post was modified by hamilton on 2002-11-21 17:09:52

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Poster: wharfrat Date: Nov 18, 2002 1:55am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Running furthurnet on the archive hosts?

Amen. I contacted the develpment team about getting the alterations to the gnutella protocol that were made for furthur in order to make a C cross platform native client. They were not interested. Apparently they like big huge cloggy applications.